copyright ©
2012 Douglas Tong, all rights reserved.
The following article is the fourth and final part of an interview with Dennis Wiens (1st dan, Katori Shinto Ryu- Sugino Branch). Mr. Wiens took his shodan test in 2008. In this article, Mr. Wiens reflects on the entire grading process.
Part 4: Retrospective
Question: About your grading for shodan, do you think it was a fair test?
Wiens: Definitely.
Question: Why?
Wiens: Because it looked at my abilities on a technical level, my ability as a learner, my willingness as a learner, and even my attitude towards training. It looked at me completely. It was a complete picture of me as a budo practitioner.
Question: So you feel that Sugino Sensei got a good look at you?
Wiens: Yes. It was also nice because it wasn’t just one small window of time. It was spread out over three days.
Question: You have done gradings in kendo and now in koryu. How do they compare?
Wiens: Well, I knew exactly what techniques and what parts of the curriculum Sensei wanted to see. And anything that wasn’t done exactly how he wanted it, I got immediate feedback and was given the chance to improve it.
Question: Oh, that’s interesting.
Wiens: Yes. Because of the much smaller numbers of practitioners in koryu, we have the luxury of having gradings like this, whereas, in much larger federations with thousands of members, it would be more difficult to do it that way. Actually, it would be near impossible to do it like that.
Question: What do you believe the goals were in this type of grading?
Wiens: That’s a good question. In my humble opinion, I believe that it was to get a clear and complete picture of me or whoever is taking the test. I think the completeness issue is important. As you know, they will represent Sugino Sensei, so there has to be more than just technical proficiency.
Question: What do you think prospective students need to do to prepare for this test?
Wiens: Practice! A lot!! (Laughing)
Pay attention to small details. Things like the line of attack may not be exciting to a lot of students but that’s one of the crucial fundamental principles in this school. Also, don’t get discouraged or upset when you get corrected. Expect to be corrected. It’s going to happen. So, all in all, practice a lot and have the right attitude. That’s the key, I think.
Question: How did you get the opportunity to go for testing? Did you request it directly from Sugino Sensei?
Wiens: I was recommended for testing by Douglas Tong Sensei and Sozen Larsen Kusano Sensei.
Question: How long did you study Katori Shinto Ryu before you went for your grading?
Wiens: Eleven years before I graded! Wow!... I never really thought of it that way.
Question: What do you mean?
Wiens: Because when I started practicing, the idea of grading seemed like an impossibility. So it was never a matter of counting how many years I had to train before my next test. It was just train, train, train.
So when you look back at it from that perspective, the number of years, you don’t really keep track of the years.
Question: Do you feel you had wasted a lot of time before you got graded?
Wiens: No, because the years I spent just training and training and training taught me to love Katori Shinto Ryu without expecting a reward like a grade or a certificate. It was the love of training for training’s sake.
Question: For the record, who did you study under?
Wiens: Some strange guy I met at university!!* (Laughing)
* Douglas Tong (the author of this article). Dennis joined the class I was running at Brock University while I was completing my M.Ed. thesis.
Question: Do you think an average student could pass the test after, say, three years of training?
Wiens: A Dan test?? Here in North America, without constant access to master teachers like Sugino Sensei or Sozen Sensei or Eri Kusano Sensei, no, I don’t think so.
Question: Why is that?
Wiens: There’s so much involved in the style. It requires a lot of guidance and when you see these master teachers infrequently, you have more time to develop strange habits that they have to correct the next time they see you, before you can progress.
Question: I see.
Wiens: Also, I think this style requires a certain dedication that makes it difficult for casual practitioners to really progress. So even when you don’t see your teacher very often, you have to diligently practice what you saw them teach you the last time they saw you without getting bored or distracted by other things.
Question: What kind of timeframe do you think is involved for a typical student to train by in order to get to a level of proficiency where they are able to pass the test?
Wiens: Ah. It really depends on the student’s natural physical ability, their ability as a learner, and their commitment to practice. Mostly, it’s their commitment to practice because through that commitment, they can overcome difficulties in the other two areas.
Question: What did you like about this testing method?
Wiens: Well, when I mentioned the luxury of time, it was nice not to be rushed. And the chance to get feedback and corrections right away, that was invaluable.
Question: What do you mean “not rushed”?
Wiens: For example, when I screwed up that first maki-uchi, I had basically three more days to show Sensei that that wasn’t the way I do maki-uchi all the time!
Question: What did you not like about this testing method?
Wiens: Driving nine hours to Sherbrooke. When you’re 6 foot 5, and folded into a small VW, it is not so much fun!
Question: Any final comments you would like to leave our readers?
Wiens: Well, I guess I’d like to say thank you to all my teachers for all their help because without them, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to practice in this style that I love so much.
Question: Thank you Dennis for allowing me to interview you and get your thoughts on your experiences from the grading with Sugino Sensei.
Wiens: Oh, you are welcome.
Author’s post-script:
“… the years I spent just training and training and training taught me to love Katori Shinto Ryu without expecting a reward like a grade or a certificate. It was the love of training for training’s sake.”
The love of the art. That’s what’s most important. Just love what you do.
“Question: What did you like about this testing method?
Wiens: … when I screwed up that first maki-uchi, I had basically three more days to show Sensei that that wasn’t the way I do maki-uchi all the time!”
This is a really interesting point. Having the second chance to demonstrate your proficiency and knowledge. Or at least, not having your proficiency judged solely on the basis of one attempt.
“Question: So you feel that Sugino Sensei got a good look at you?
Wiens: Yes. It was also nice because it wasn’t just one small window of time. It was spread out over three days.”
That is actually a common complaint in education about the value of standardized testing such as with major exams in university or the big proficiency tests such as the LSAT (Law School Admission Test), MCAT (Medical College Admission Test), SAT (Scholastic Assessment Test), to name a few. These are all standardized, multiple-choice examinations designed to assess the examinee's problem solving, critical thinking, and knowledge of concepts and principles.
But such exams are one-time affairs. They measure your proficiency at one moment in time.
They give a picture of you at one time, one place, one circumstance; a snapshot.
“Question: About your grading for shodan, do you think it was a fair test?
Wiens: Definitely… Because it looked at my abilities on a technical level, my ability as a learner, my willingness as a learner, and even my attitude towards training. It looked at me completely. It was a complete picture of me as a budo practitioner.”
On the surface, standardized tests give the impression that there is an objective measure. This in theory allows equal opportunity for advancement without bias or favouritism. It sounds sensible and fair. The method used by Sugino Sensei however is much more subjective.
A standardized test will look more at technical ability, whether you can perform what is required. It will also look at knowledge of concepts and principles. Things that can be quantified and measured objectively.
But more intangible elements such as a learner’s willingness to learn or his attitude, as Dennis remarked, are not so easily quantifiable or measureable. That depends a lot on judgement, a very subjective thing. And these elements, some argue, need to be judged over a period of time.
Dennis also talked about completeness. In other words, the test he took gave a more comprehensive look at the candidate. Not just technical proficiency (whether you can perform) but also looked at the candidate’s character (answering questions such as “What kind of a person are you?” or “Are you the type of person we want representing us?”).
Standardized testing looks at the candidate’s proficiency and knowledge/ understanding; that’s the physical and the mental. Can you perform the kata correctly? Do you possess the technical proficiency necessary for this level? Do you know the key ideas for this level? Do you understand the required philosophical concepts for this rank? Yes, these things are necessary and important. For a person to be ranked at a particular level, they need to have these understandings and level of technical proficiency. There is no argument about that.
But in this particular school of old budo, it seems that the character piece (looking at the attitude of the practitioner) is just as important.
Announcement
A Special 2-Day Intensive Seminar In
Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu
July 15, 2012
and
Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Kenjutsu
July 16, 2012
With 11th Generation Headmaster (Soke) of Yagyu Shingan Ryu
Yasushi Kajitsuka Sensei
from Tochigi, Japan
For more information, see: www.tokumeikan.org
Mr. Tong can be contacted via email at: doug@dragonfencing.com
Mr. Tong also writes many articles on teaching martial arts. You can read them at: Physical Training: Fitness for Combatives Electronic Journal
The following article is the fourth and final part of an interview with Dennis Wiens (1st dan, Katori Shinto Ryu- Sugino Branch). Mr. Wiens took his shodan test in 2008. In this article, Mr. Wiens reflects on the entire grading process.
Part 4: Retrospective
Question: About your grading for shodan, do you think it was a fair test?
Wiens: Definitely.
Question: Why?
Wiens: Because it looked at my abilities on a technical level, my ability as a learner, my willingness as a learner, and even my attitude towards training. It looked at me completely. It was a complete picture of me as a budo practitioner.
Question: So you feel that Sugino Sensei got a good look at you?
Wiens: Yes. It was also nice because it wasn’t just one small window of time. It was spread out over three days.
Question: You have done gradings in kendo and now in koryu. How do they compare?
Wiens: Well, I knew exactly what techniques and what parts of the curriculum Sensei wanted to see. And anything that wasn’t done exactly how he wanted it, I got immediate feedback and was given the chance to improve it.
Question: Oh, that’s interesting.
Wiens: Yes. Because of the much smaller numbers of practitioners in koryu, we have the luxury of having gradings like this, whereas, in much larger federations with thousands of members, it would be more difficult to do it that way. Actually, it would be near impossible to do it like that.
Question: What do you believe the goals were in this type of grading?
Wiens: That’s a good question. In my humble opinion, I believe that it was to get a clear and complete picture of me or whoever is taking the test. I think the completeness issue is important. As you know, they will represent Sugino Sensei, so there has to be more than just technical proficiency.
Question: What do you think prospective students need to do to prepare for this test?
Wiens: Practice! A lot!! (Laughing)
Pay attention to small details. Things like the line of attack may not be exciting to a lot of students but that’s one of the crucial fundamental principles in this school. Also, don’t get discouraged or upset when you get corrected. Expect to be corrected. It’s going to happen. So, all in all, practice a lot and have the right attitude. That’s the key, I think.
Question: How did you get the opportunity to go for testing? Did you request it directly from Sugino Sensei?
Wiens: I was recommended for testing by Douglas Tong Sensei and Sozen Larsen Kusano Sensei.
Question: How long did you study Katori Shinto Ryu before you went for your grading?
Wiens: Eleven years before I graded! Wow!... I never really thought of it that way.
Question: What do you mean?
Wiens: Because when I started practicing, the idea of grading seemed like an impossibility. So it was never a matter of counting how many years I had to train before my next test. It was just train, train, train.
So when you look back at it from that perspective, the number of years, you don’t really keep track of the years.
Question: Do you feel you had wasted a lot of time before you got graded?
Wiens: No, because the years I spent just training and training and training taught me to love Katori Shinto Ryu without expecting a reward like a grade or a certificate. It was the love of training for training’s sake.
Question: For the record, who did you study under?
Wiens: Some strange guy I met at university!!* (Laughing)
* Douglas Tong (the author of this article). Dennis joined the class I was running at Brock University while I was completing my M.Ed. thesis.
Question: Do you think an average student could pass the test after, say, three years of training?
Wiens: A Dan test?? Here in North America, without constant access to master teachers like Sugino Sensei or Sozen Sensei or Eri Kusano Sensei, no, I don’t think so.
Question: Why is that?
Wiens: There’s so much involved in the style. It requires a lot of guidance and when you see these master teachers infrequently, you have more time to develop strange habits that they have to correct the next time they see you, before you can progress.
Question: I see.
Wiens: Also, I think this style requires a certain dedication that makes it difficult for casual practitioners to really progress. So even when you don’t see your teacher very often, you have to diligently practice what you saw them teach you the last time they saw you without getting bored or distracted by other things.
Question: What kind of timeframe do you think is involved for a typical student to train by in order to get to a level of proficiency where they are able to pass the test?
Wiens: Ah. It really depends on the student’s natural physical ability, their ability as a learner, and their commitment to practice. Mostly, it’s their commitment to practice because through that commitment, they can overcome difficulties in the other two areas.
Question: What did you like about this testing method?
Wiens: Well, when I mentioned the luxury of time, it was nice not to be rushed. And the chance to get feedback and corrections right away, that was invaluable.
Question: What do you mean “not rushed”?
Wiens: For example, when I screwed up that first maki-uchi, I had basically three more days to show Sensei that that wasn’t the way I do maki-uchi all the time!
Question: What did you not like about this testing method?
Wiens: Driving nine hours to Sherbrooke. When you’re 6 foot 5, and folded into a small VW, it is not so much fun!
Question: Any final comments you would like to leave our readers?
Wiens: Well, I guess I’d like to say thank you to all my teachers for all their help because without them, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to practice in this style that I love so much.
Question: Thank you Dennis for allowing me to interview you and get your thoughts on your experiences from the grading with Sugino Sensei.
Wiens: Oh, you are welcome.
Author’s post-script:
“… the years I spent just training and training and training taught me to love Katori Shinto Ryu without expecting a reward like a grade or a certificate. It was the love of training for training’s sake.”
The love of the art. That’s what’s most important. Just love what you do.
“Question: What did you like about this testing method?
Wiens: … when I screwed up that first maki-uchi, I had basically three more days to show Sensei that that wasn’t the way I do maki-uchi all the time!”
This is a really interesting point. Having the second chance to demonstrate your proficiency and knowledge. Or at least, not having your proficiency judged solely on the basis of one attempt.
“Question: So you feel that Sugino Sensei got a good look at you?
Wiens: Yes. It was also nice because it wasn’t just one small window of time. It was spread out over three days.”
That is actually a common complaint in education about the value of standardized testing such as with major exams in university or the big proficiency tests such as the LSAT (Law School Admission Test), MCAT (Medical College Admission Test), SAT (Scholastic Assessment Test), to name a few. These are all standardized, multiple-choice examinations designed to assess the examinee's problem solving, critical thinking, and knowledge of concepts and principles.
But such exams are one-time affairs. They measure your proficiency at one moment in time.
They give a picture of you at one time, one place, one circumstance; a snapshot.
“Question: About your grading for shodan, do you think it was a fair test?
Wiens: Definitely… Because it looked at my abilities on a technical level, my ability as a learner, my willingness as a learner, and even my attitude towards training. It looked at me completely. It was a complete picture of me as a budo practitioner.”
On the surface, standardized tests give the impression that there is an objective measure. This in theory allows equal opportunity for advancement without bias or favouritism. It sounds sensible and fair. The method used by Sugino Sensei however is much more subjective.
A standardized test will look more at technical ability, whether you can perform what is required. It will also look at knowledge of concepts and principles. Things that can be quantified and measured objectively.
But more intangible elements such as a learner’s willingness to learn or his attitude, as Dennis remarked, are not so easily quantifiable or measureable. That depends a lot on judgement, a very subjective thing. And these elements, some argue, need to be judged over a period of time.
Dennis also talked about completeness. In other words, the test he took gave a more comprehensive look at the candidate. Not just technical proficiency (whether you can perform) but also looked at the candidate’s character (answering questions such as “What kind of a person are you?” or “Are you the type of person we want representing us?”).
Standardized testing looks at the candidate’s proficiency and knowledge/ understanding; that’s the physical and the mental. Can you perform the kata correctly? Do you possess the technical proficiency necessary for this level? Do you know the key ideas for this level? Do you understand the required philosophical concepts for this rank? Yes, these things are necessary and important. For a person to be ranked at a particular level, they need to have these understandings and level of technical proficiency. There is no argument about that.
But in this particular school of old budo, it seems that the character piece (looking at the attitude of the practitioner) is just as important.
Announcement
A Special 2-Day Intensive Seminar In
Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu
July 15, 2012
and
Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Kenjutsu
July 16, 2012
With 11th Generation Headmaster (Soke) of Yagyu Shingan Ryu
Yasushi Kajitsuka Sensei
from Tochigi, Japan
For more information, see: www.tokumeikan.org
Mr. Tong can be contacted via email at: doug@dragonfencing.com
Mr. Tong also writes many articles on teaching martial arts. You can read them at: Physical Training: Fitness for Combatives Electronic Journal